they are hostages, right? >> i mean, they are being held by the government. the governments have confirmed that. so i don't even that i need to categorize it further, james. >> you don't regard them ass who tanks? >> do we have another topic? >> well, i hope we are paying that woman a lot of money. joining us now from washington ace correspondents carl cameron and james rosen. >> so, rosen, let's run down these guys the first one is merrill newman 85 years old the north koreas have them, what did he do. >> korean war vet. been accused of war crimes, bill during his service in 1953. he has read some videotaped statement in which he apologized. not known whether that was coerced or not but it's believed that it was. >> of course. he was over in north north korea on a tour, right? >> that's right. they are accusing him of committing hostile acts by looking for spies and terrorists under the guise of being a tourist. >> he looks like james bond. all right, and the other guy is kenneth bae, 44-year-old american missionary and also being held in north korea.